Self Defence Hub Founder Joins ABC Radio to Discuss Workplace Violence

Self Defence Hub founder Andre Conate recently joined ABC Radio across Queensland to discuss confronting footage of a Brisbane nurse being attacked by a patient at work.

The nurse had more than a decade of Brazilian jiu-jitsu experience and was able to protect himself, restrain the attacker and wait for assistance without causing unnecessary harm.

During the interview, Andre explained that self-defence is not simply about learning how to fight. For nurses, teachers, case workers and others working in higher-risk environments, training can help them:

• Recognise when a situation is escalating
• Use de-escalation techniques
• Position themselves more safely
• Create distance or place a barrier between themselves and another person
• Move from a panic response into a problem-solving state
• Physically protect themselves when there is no safe way to leave

Susan compared self-defence training to first aid. Andre elaborated that even one workshop can give someone practical knowledge to draw upon during an emergency.

“You’re not going to remember 100 per cent of the course, but you’re going to remember parts of it where you can take action,” Andre explained.

However, the interview also raised an important question: does providing self-defence training risk suggesting that violence is simply part of the job?

Our answer is no. Nurses, teachers and other frontline workers should never be expected to accept violence at work. Training can provide valuable options and greater confidence, but it must sit alongside strong workplace procedures, appropriate staffing, effective reporting systems and a genuine commitment to preventing violence.

The responsibility for workplace violence must never be placed upon the person being attacked.

Self-defence training is not about expecting people to become martial artists. It is about helping them recognise danger earlier, respond with greater clarity and have more options available if a situation becomes unsafe.

Transcript of Radio Interview (listen here https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/northqld-mornings/mornings/106992988) -

Susan: A confronting video of a Brisbane nurse being attacked by a patient has gone viral this week.
The nurse had more than a decade of jujitsu training and was able to restrain his attacker until help arrived. It does raise an uncomfortable question, though. Are we reaching a point where knowing how to defend yourself is becoming a workplace skill? And if we prepare nurses, teachers, and other workers for violence, do we risk accepting that it is simply part of the job?

Earlier this morning, you heard from the Australian College of Nursing Chief Nursing Officer Francis Rice, who had this to say about self-defence training for nurses. That nurse did a, you know, a fantastic job to keep himself and that person safe. There needs to be a zero tolerance to violence of any form towards health workers. It's not addressed in legislation in the same way that police and ambulance officers are protected.

For example, nurses need that same protection, but we also need the public to respect the work that we do and respect our right to safe work spaces. And now, Andre Conate has spent more than 25 years studying martial arts and founded the Self Defence hub in 2014 to teach everyday people how to protect themselves. Andre. Good morning.

Andre: Good morning Susan.

Susan: When you watch that footage of the nurse, what did you notice about the way that he responded?

Andre: Yeah. Well, I mean, you can really tell he's had over a decade of martial arts training because when you watch the footage, the the person was seemingly willing to comply, exited the building and he waited for the nurse to turn around, also turning before he threw whatever was in his hand and attempted to strike. So the nurse did everything correctly in terms of martial arts, so he stood on his side. He kept his hands up. He wasn't. The strikes that the person was about to carry was blocked, and he used his strength against him and took him down to the ground and controlled him. And he got him in what's called a rear naked choke.

And from that position, there's not much someone can do when you're in that position. The way he had it, he could have potentially actually put him to sleep as well if he was, you know, more danger. So he did everything correctly. Well, yeah. And thankfully he, he, he responded in a way that defended himself without putting the person at additional risk.

Susan: He did, as you were saying, have ten years experience in jujitsu. However, for an ordinary nurse or a teacher without that background. What can self-defence training realistically equip them to do in a situation like that?

Andre: Well, I believe that self-defence training really there's a lot that people focus on in the actual fight situation when someone's already throwing hands or grabbing and things like that.

There's a lot in recognising a situation that's escalating. So from that point of view, people who don't have extensive martial arts knowledge, that's where a lot can be done. Once you know someone's throwing punches and stuff like that, we can kind of minimise the danger that that they can do depending on their position. But we do like to say if you can follow the procedure, which should include de-escalation, and if you can, if you haven't had any practice or anything like that, try to if you can remove yourself or run from the situation, and then the next move, if you can't do that, is to either hide or obstruct.

So put something in the way between you and the other person to just give yourself a little bit of room to move and defend yourself.

Susan: Yeah. When some people say defend themselves, it's probably more a mental image of physically fighting back. But a lot of it happens, like you were just saying before, it reaches that point to sort of de-escalate, de-escalate, or, you know, give yourself barriers in between.

Andre: Yeah, it certainly is. And it's hard to if you haven't been trained in it, it's hard to do because you're reacting in real time. And if you haven't had practice, a lot of information goes through your brain all at the same time. So a lot of people have different responses. So some people might freeze. Some people might run.

Some people might want to fight. But having de-escalation techniques gives you the ability to go, okay, if this happened, then I do this. If this happened, then I do that. So it puts you in a different state. So it puts you in a problem solving state as opposed to a panic state or a freezing state. So we try to minimise the damage that can be done by leaving you in that position.

Susan: One of the petition you're hearing from self-defence expert Andre Conate there are situations where perhaps trying to physically defend yourself can actually maybe make things more dangerous, particularly somewhere like a hospital or classroom. Is that your experience, Andre? Yeah. Look, whenever there is a fire situation, you just never know what's going to happen, right? So, you know, they may be carrying a weapon, or they might have, they might have some self-defence, like martial arts skills that you're not aware of.

So when you are engaging in a fight, you just don't know what other things can throw into the environment. So the main thing is to try not to mean, obviously, if most people don't want to be confronted that way. Most people don't want to get into a fight. So that's something that we really encourage. But having self-defence knowledge just means that, you know, positions to be in to minimise damage.

And if you have it is an ability for you to, you know, have ten years experience like this guy and, you know, the other person's a similar size and you've had extensive practice and there's only one person. It's a lot. It's a it's a lot easier than having, you know, more people or someone lot bigger. So that's why martial arts training or self-defence training is really important because you just you understand how bodies work and move and position yourself in a way to minimise that damage.

Susan: And Andre, I guess it's similar to first aid that it gives you tools to draw on. You know that there is maybe some muscle memory and something in your brain that will hopefully jump into action in those situations, should you be caught in them.

Andre: Oh, absolutely. For anyone who's done first aid before and who hasn't had any experience in that, like if you were to have an emergency situation in front of you, you absolutely probably wouldn't know what to do.

Whereas even if you've had one session, got elements where you're like, okay, I remember this and so I should try this, I remember that, and so I should try that. You're not going to remember 100% of the course, but you're going to remember bits of it where you can take that action. There's some we've had people that's done, let's say just one off two hour course that years later have emailed me back saying, hey, something happened.

I remember what you told me. I know it was only short, but this is what I did. And so, you know, even one course is enough to get you thinking about different scenarios, and it's enough to kind of give you a way out or an option, rather than sort of having to think about it on the spot. Yeah, it's it's really important to think about and to, ourselves with those skills.

Susan: There is a bit of an uncomfortable tension here because nurses, teachers, everybody shouldn't have to become martial artists to be safe at work. Have you noticed an increase in the number of students from some of those occupations and industries over the years?

Andre: Yeah. Look, I mean, if we do an overview, right, so we really should be trying to look at the people who are committing these violence, because oftentimes it's more than once this has happened, rather than trying to get the general public to be on the defence about it, which is, you know, we've really got to look at that whole system.

But yes, certainly, nurses have always I've been doing martial arts for over 30 years and teaching for about 25. And nurses are usually the top. Any healthcare nurses are usually right up there. Lately we've had quite a lot of case workers who sometimes go into people's homes. Teachers, yes, but actually students, right.

Susan: Do you think that sometimes accepting that self-defence training should be a standard in some high risk workplaces like this is it's important, but maybe is it also risking normalising a level of violence that we should just as a society, not accept?

Andre: Yeah. Look, I wish we in the ideal world, teaching self-defence shouldn't be a requirement. However, having seen people walk in the way, they're quite timid and they're they're quite, you know, scared about being in a physical confrontation and then watching the walk out afterwards in terms of like having a self-defence lesson. People carry themselves differently because they've got some skills in their back pocket.

So in that sense, it is quite empowering for someone to do self-defence. But having said that, as a person of the community, it's really sucks to have to think about having to do self-defence in order to live your daily life, in order to live and work, in order to be in public. So yeah, it is very unfortunate.

Susan: Andre Conate expert in self-defence and founder of the Self Defence Hub. Thank you very much for your time this morning. Appreciate it.

Andre: Thanks, Susan. Thank you. You are on ABC. Across Queensland. A very important a very big conversation and I'm sure one that we will continue into the future.